To some people, better argument in favour of a character = Fanboy
Just imagine A.A. meeting Gustang (and his supposed complexity) = The mindf*** !
I don't think SIU can really deliver on this though.
Back on topic, I'd say Dragon all the way.
EternET wrote: Already Zahard vs Urek, Zahard wins because of experience and Guardians' contracts. Even worse if it's a team death match, as Zahard can pretty much have the ten Family heads with him, while there's nobody up to this that Wolhaiksong can have against that.
So now about Enryu, that I believe CAN kill Zahard AND the 10 Families' heads in a one vs all scenario. It's simple, Enryu is the "God of Shinsoo", and that makes it all. Zahard and Co failed the test of a guardian/Enryu killed a Guardian. Plus concidering Irregulars freely use shinsoo (and soon we'll read what the "origin" technique's about), the "more than 9000" baangs thing becomes even less trivial.
Funny thought, I think Headon is looking for Enryu, to bind him with a contract "like Rachel" and force him to unlock the last floors of the tower.
The topic was Enryu vs Urek (I vote for Enryu simply the overwhelming description and achievement), not Urek vs Zahard and most definitely not Urek vs Zahard & Co. Most discussions and speculations are between two beings because that's what makes an interesting conversation and argument. Also, I fail to see how the tower's contract plays any role since Urek is an irregular; being born outside the tower voids the contract of invincibility towards those born within the tower. If based on just facts alone, Urek has conquered the tower faster than Zahard's time and Zahard climbed it with the 10 families, couple princesses, luslec, and pretty much all the top rankers. How much "experience" Zahard actually has over Urek and its actual significance have not been stated by Siu nor the comic but my opinion of it would be that it's not far off as both accomplished the same feat in terms of the struggle of tower climbing. Especially now while Zahard is inactive and Urek is still actively improving, working towards his goals. It is my opinion that Urek would win vs Zahard but it would be a very close victory and a great battle that is not one sided. All in all, Zahard and Urek are close in strength but definitely clear victory for Enryu
The topic was Enryu vs Urek (I vote for Enryu simply the overwhelming description and achievement), not Urek vs Zahard and most definitely not Urek vs Zahard & Co. Most discussions and speculations are between two beings because that's what makes an interesting conversation and argument. Also, I fail to see how the tower's contract plays any role since Urek is an irregular; being born outside the tower voids the contract of invincibility towards those born within the tower. If based on just facts alone, Urek has conquered the tower faster than Zahard's time and Zahard climbed it with the 10 families, couple princesses, luslec, and pretty much all the top rankers. How much "experience" Zahard actually has over Urek and its actual significance have not been stated by Siu nor the comic but my opinion of it would be that it's not far off as both accomplished the same feat in terms of the struggle of tower climbing. Especially now while Zahard is inactive and Urek is still actively improving, working towards his goals. It is my opinion that Urek would win vs Zahard but it would be a very close victory and a great battle that is not one sided. All in all, Zahard and Urek are close in strength but definitely clear victory for Enryu
I used the comparison with Zahard to bring you a sense of the broken power level betwen rank 2 and rank 3, eventhough the gap might not be that big between rank 3 and 4 (you're definitly right that Zahard and Urek are closer than Zahard to Enryu, my point was exactly Enryu>>Zahard>Urek if you're a maths nut like me :p).
Now the significance of contracts: When I speak about contracts, I'm not talking about the "using shinsoo" contract, or those that limit an irregular on a floor, I speak of those that enhance an individual : Unlimited lifespam, replenishing stamina (Love )=enhanced body statistics and recovery, enhanced Shinsoo resistance (Yu Han Sung )=enhanced Shinsoo "relationship". It's a concept a little bit cloudy for now, but SIU in his posts put a real enphasis on those, they might be quite important.
EternET wrote: Already Zahard vs Urek, Zahard wins because of experience and Guardians' contracts. Even worse if it's a team death match, as Zahard can pretty much have the ten Family heads with him, while there's nobody up to this that Wolhaiksong can have against that.
So now about Enryu, that I believe CAN kill Zahard AND the 10 Families' heads in a one vs all scenario. It's simple, Enryu is the "God of Shinsoo", and that makes it all. Zahard and Co failed the test of a guardian/Enryu killed a Guardian. Plus concidering Irregulars freely use shinsoo (and soon we'll read what the "origin" technique's about), the "more than 9000" baangs thing becomes even less trivial.
Funny thought, I think Headon is looking for Enryu, to bind him with a contract "like Rachel" and force him to unlock the last floors of the tower.
The topic was Enryu vs Urek (I vote for Enryu simply the overwhelming description and achievement), not Urek vs Zahard and most definitely not Urek vs Zahard & Co. Most discussions and speculations are between two beings because that's what makes an interesting conversation and argument. Also, I fail to see how the tower's contract plays any role since Urek is an irregular; being born outside the tower voids the contract of invincibility towards those born within the tower. If based on just facts alone, Urek has conquered the tower faster than Zahard's time and Zahard climbed it with the 10 families, couple princesses, luslec, and pretty much all the top rankers. How much "experience" Zahard actually has over Urek and its actual significance have not been stated by Siu nor the comic but my opinion of it would be that it's not far off as both accomplished the same feat in terms of the struggle of tower climbing. Especially now while Zahard is inactive and Urek is still actively improving, working towards his goals. It is my opinion that Urek would win vs Zahard but it would be a very close victory and a great battle that is not one sided. All in all, Zahard and Urek are close in strength but definitely clear victory for Enryu
You have to take into account that when Jahad and the ten great warriors climbed the tower (helped by others as well) there wasn't such a system in place yet. What they did, logically, is that they took floor guardian tests (because they are the ones who created the "regular climbing system" in the first place).
We don't know how Urek climbed the tower. Did he climb the regular way? Did he climb the irregular way? Or was it a mix of both? Urek record is indeed incredible (one tenth the average ranker, and Urek still had time to pay regular visit to Baek Ryun if it hasn't been retconned) but I don't think it can be compared to a full very difficult guardian-test climb.
EternET wrote: Already Zahard vs Urek, Zahard wins because of experience and Guardians' contracts. Even worse if it's a team death match, as Zahard can pretty much have the ten Family heads with him, while there's nobody up to this that Wolhaiksong can have against that.
So now about Enryu, that I believe CAN kill Zahard AND the 10 Families' heads in a one vs all scenario. It's simple, Enryu is the "God of Shinsoo", and that makes it all. Zahard and Co failed the test of a guardian/Enryu killed a Guardian. Plus concidering Irregulars freely use shinsoo (and soon we'll read what the "origin" technique's about), the "more than 9000" baangs thing becomes even less trivial.
Funny thought, I think Headon is looking for Enryu, to bind him with a contract "like Rachel" and force him to unlock the last floors of the tower.
We don't know how Urek climbed the tower. Did he climb the regular way? Did he climb the irregular way? Or was it a mix of both? Urek record is indeed incredible (one tenth the average ranker, and Urek still had time to pay regular visit to Baek Ryun if it hasn't been retconned) but I don't think it can be compared to a full very difficult guardian-test climb.
Urek climed the regular way. If he used a diiferent method, he would most likely have climed the tower even quicker.
I have to give this to Enryu. I love Urek and all of his badass entrances, but I think Urek was made by SIU as somebody who Baam is meant to one day surpass. If not surpass, I think Urek is at least somebody who is within Baam's reach. Urek also realized that when he received the scratch on his face from Baam's attack inside the Zygaena, and that's why he has taken such interest in Baam's potential. Urek has incredible feats, as he claimed to be able take on 1000 rankers all in one go (I'm sure with a few high-rankers mixed in). I know this was his own claim from his own mouth so it should lack credibility, but I feel that the author put him in the position to say that to prove the point on how broken he is as a character, meaning its a feat he could certainly pull off even if he had not done so in the first place.
Enryu (and Phantaminum, but that's not even a fair comparison cuz Axis. Actually if we're talking about fair, Enryu isn't exactly a good comparison either but I digress), from what we have seen in the spoilers, is in a league of his own due to mastery of shinsoo. This isn't just simple mastery. The shinsoo turning red in his presence is almost a way of it announcing its new owner. Floor administrators are the owners of the shinsoo for their respective floors, and in a sense have higher authority for their own floor than Zahard does for the tower. Zahard is king of the tower because of a contract with the administrators on the floors he has conquered.
When Enryu fought the administrator, he didn't simply defeat him. He literally usurped the administrator of its authority of shinsoo and just pelted it with spear after spear in an environment that should have been 100% disadvantageous for him. Enryu beating the administrator on its own floor is basically beating a master in its own playing field.
Urek might honestly be able to pull of fighting or even beating an administrator too. Same with Zahard. It's hard to say because we have no information on whether or not either have provoked and battled one. We also don't know the full manner of the tests given to Zahard when he was climbing the tower, but I'm sure in an earlier instance he must have come into conflict with at least one of the administrators, instigating an actual fight. Maybe he even won such a fight, but decided to keep the administrator alive so he could make use of the floor and its shinsoo for part of his plan in using the tower as his ruling place. But even if that were the case, I don't think either Rank 3 or Rank 4 could have defeated a floor administrator so completely. Even the way Enryu's battle and victory were narrated was almost as if somebody was describing a heavenly decree, like Judgment Day, which was further played along by how Enryu was described as a 'messenger of God'
Everything I have said was speculation, however, and could be completely wrong. But this is how I've been perceiving the characters discussed in this thread.
Lol iregullar way is easier?? the hell can that be lul
This is so obvious Enryu wins. Easily.
Some people were saying "oh what if Urek was capable of killing an administrator?(Or floor guardians although administrator is the literal translation) To answer your question No. Urek cannot kill an administrator. It was stated by SIU himself that Administrator can one shot every single living thing below rank 2 put together.
After all, administrators literally rules shinsoo/shinsu. Meaning a single administrator can just cause air to stop existing or even cause his opponents to just disappear. No matter how powerful they are.
Anyways officially SIU stated that 1 administrator vs entire tower = administrator's win.
Conculsion: Enryu will D E S T R O Y Urek Mazino or any other irregulars with overwhelming ease.